"The Godfather of White Nationalism" Discusses "The Surge", the Current Frontmen for the Movement and Infiltrating Police Departments
A From The G-Man Exclusive
According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, "After David Duke, Tom Metzger is one of the most notorious living white supremacists in the United States. He is a former California grand dragon of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan who, in the mid-1980s, founded White Aryan Resistance (WAR), one of the leading racist groups of the period and the publisher of a gutturally racist tabloid.
"Metzger, one of the early pioneers of using cable television to promote his message, has long described himself as an anti-corporate leftist, despite his neo-Nazi views, and has worked to cultivate workers and labor unions. Since WAR was bankrupted by a 1990 Southern Poverty Law Center civil suit over the murder of a black graduate student, Metzger has served as a kind of ideologue and godfather figure for the racist skinhead scene."
"Metzger, one of the early pioneers of using cable television to promote his message, has long described himself as an anti-corporate leftist, despite his neo-Nazi views, and has worked to cultivate workers and labor unions. Since WAR was bankrupted by a 1990 Southern Poverty Law Center civil suit over the murder of a black graduate student, Metzger has served as a kind of ideologue and godfather figure for the racist skinhead scene."
In 2011, From The G-Man conducted its first interview with Metzger and discussed a range of issues. With white nationalist group membership and racial tension rapidly increasing throughout the United States and abroad, an invitation for a follow-up interview was extended in order to discuss the movement and the global coverage it continues to receive. The purpose of this interview is not to fan the flames of hatred, but to initiate a national dialogue on the future of race relations in America.
G-Man: Why have you remained under the radar in the wake of what I refer to as "The Surge", which is the unprecedented rise of white nationalist group membership in America?
Metzger: The situation reminds me of the chaos during the Wiemar Republic. The smart people dug in and waited. A lone wolf works alongside leaderless resistance.
G-Man: What do you think of David Duke, Matt Heimbach, Commander Jeff Schoep and Richard Spencer?
Metzger: I think almost nothing of them, at any time. They think they know the way, so let them try. The fact of the matter is they're just being used by the ruling class. All they have to do is look at history, but not many people learn from history.
Metzger: The situation reminds me of the chaos during the Wiemar Republic. The smart people dug in and waited. A lone wolf works alongside leaderless resistance.
G-Man: What do you think of David Duke, Matt Heimbach, Commander Jeff Schoep and Richard Spencer?
Metzger: I think almost nothing of them, at any time. They think they know the way, so let them try. The fact of the matter is they're just being used by the ruling class. All they have to do is look at history, but not many people learn from history.
G-Man: Whom do you think is most capable of leading the movement over the next 10-15 years and why?
Metzger: None of us! The true leader or leaders are not even on the horizon, as far as I'm concerned. What is going on now is just a Mickey Mouse operation. The current movement is eating its own, so why be impolite and interfere.
G-Man: Which would you cite as the major reason for the surge in white nationalist membership in America: a) the controversial comments and policies of former candidate and current President Donald Trump b) the fact that a Black man was President of the United States for two terms or c) an ever-present "white rage" that's been building, from one generation to the next, since the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was enacted?
Metzger: In my view, what's being expressed nowadays is not white rage. Both right and left are playing games. It's nothing more than shadowboxing. If you remember the Civil War, that was white rage. If you get a chance, watch the series, "Babylon/Berlin" on Netflix. We're not even close to that stage yet.
G-Man: President Trump recently used a derogatory term to describe the African continent and Haiti, and he intimated the U.S. would be better off by welcoming people from countries like Norway, which is predominately white. You've made similar statements as a "proud white man" and founder of White Aryan Resistance. Given that you both share the same point of view, wouldn't many in this country and abroad be correct in stating President Donald Trump is a white nationalist or white nationalist sympathizer?
Metzger: Again, it's all part of the game. The rich will use whatever tactic they can dream up as a weapon for making money. Working-class racism is an honest racism: people struggling to hold on to their homes and livelihoods, their kids, their schools, ect. Honest racism should not be confused with the deeds or words of Donald Trump.
G-Man: The members of your movement, as well as yourself, believe that America will soon be engulfed in a "RaHoWa" or racial holy war. If that is the case, what do you believe will serve as the tipping point?
Metzger: It'll be the same things I've been talking about for years; an economic collapse, infrastructure deterioration and natural resource problems. It will be the end of the empire. With those things happening, the working-class will have nowhere to turn. In the end, they will go back to the basic rules of survival, tribalism and so on.
G-Man: You're a fierce proponent of the Second Amendment and gun rights. If you'd been approached to do so, would you have publicly denounced the killing of Philando Castile, a Black man that was shot and killed by a police officer after stating he was licensed to carry and attempted to present his ID?
Metzger: I do not support any cop who uses his power to kill, regardless of color. You don't seem to recall that I refused to condemn the Rodney King riots. However, I did state that I would've preferred they burned down Beverly Hills and not white working-class neighborhoods. If they'd done as I suggested during their revolt against the system, I might have very well provided the gasoline. The police do not serve the working-class of any race. They only serve the elite.
G-Man: In 2016, From The G-Man contacted the Department of Justice, the National Fraternal Order of Police and New York City Police Department Commissioner James O'Neill for an in-depth discussion about white supremacist infiltration of police departments across the country. Unfortunately, none of the aforementioned responded.
During your 2013 appearance on The G-Man Interviews, you also stated, and I'm paraphrasing here, "The key to this movement's success is infiltration on every level and embracing a lone wolf mentality." That was a very bold statement. Hopefully, you'll be as bold when answering this final question. How certain are you that a significant number of police departments in America have been infiltrated by white supremacists?
Metzger: Most right-wing people are not sharp enough for proper infiltration. Most have big mouths instead of undercover smarts. I'm only interested in deep cover. For example, someone that will never take a position that might make him appear racist. In fact, the best cover is to mimic the position of the other side. I have known very few right-wing people who could possibly carry this out.
For the record, I don't use the term white supremacist because most of the time the whites don't act like their supreme. Because of the way I operate, I have no way of knowing how many in law enforcement have taken my advice. That's all I'll say on the matter. To go beyond that would pose a serious threat to their livelihoods and maybe their lives. The Klan organizations showcase their members all the time, which has led to people getting fired and even worse. Check out my website for more information on my perspectives. I'm more "old left" than "new right". (Laughing) You may be surprised.
Metzger: None of us! The true leader or leaders are not even on the horizon, as far as I'm concerned. What is going on now is just a Mickey Mouse operation. The current movement is eating its own, so why be impolite and interfere.
G-Man: Which would you cite as the major reason for the surge in white nationalist membership in America: a) the controversial comments and policies of former candidate and current President Donald Trump b) the fact that a Black man was President of the United States for two terms or c) an ever-present "white rage" that's been building, from one generation to the next, since the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was enacted?
Metzger: In my view, what's being expressed nowadays is not white rage. Both right and left are playing games. It's nothing more than shadowboxing. If you remember the Civil War, that was white rage. If you get a chance, watch the series, "Babylon/Berlin" on Netflix. We're not even close to that stage yet.
G-Man: President Trump recently used a derogatory term to describe the African continent and Haiti, and he intimated the U.S. would be better off by welcoming people from countries like Norway, which is predominately white. You've made similar statements as a "proud white man" and founder of White Aryan Resistance. Given that you both share the same point of view, wouldn't many in this country and abroad be correct in stating President Donald Trump is a white nationalist or white nationalist sympathizer?
Metzger: Again, it's all part of the game. The rich will use whatever tactic they can dream up as a weapon for making money. Working-class racism is an honest racism: people struggling to hold on to their homes and livelihoods, their kids, their schools, ect. Honest racism should not be confused with the deeds or words of Donald Trump.
G-Man: The members of your movement, as well as yourself, believe that America will soon be engulfed in a "RaHoWa" or racial holy war. If that is the case, what do you believe will serve as the tipping point?
Metzger: It'll be the same things I've been talking about for years; an economic collapse, infrastructure deterioration and natural resource problems. It will be the end of the empire. With those things happening, the working-class will have nowhere to turn. In the end, they will go back to the basic rules of survival, tribalism and so on.
G-Man: You're a fierce proponent of the Second Amendment and gun rights. If you'd been approached to do so, would you have publicly denounced the killing of Philando Castile, a Black man that was shot and killed by a police officer after stating he was licensed to carry and attempted to present his ID?
Metzger: I do not support any cop who uses his power to kill, regardless of color. You don't seem to recall that I refused to condemn the Rodney King riots. However, I did state that I would've preferred they burned down Beverly Hills and not white working-class neighborhoods. If they'd done as I suggested during their revolt against the system, I might have very well provided the gasoline. The police do not serve the working-class of any race. They only serve the elite.
G-Man: In 2016, From The G-Man contacted the Department of Justice, the National Fraternal Order of Police and New York City Police Department Commissioner James O'Neill for an in-depth discussion about white supremacist infiltration of police departments across the country. Unfortunately, none of the aforementioned responded.
During your 2013 appearance on The G-Man Interviews, you also stated, and I'm paraphrasing here, "The key to this movement's success is infiltration on every level and embracing a lone wolf mentality." That was a very bold statement. Hopefully, you'll be as bold when answering this final question. How certain are you that a significant number of police departments in America have been infiltrated by white supremacists?
Metzger: Most right-wing people are not sharp enough for proper infiltration. Most have big mouths instead of undercover smarts. I'm only interested in deep cover. For example, someone that will never take a position that might make him appear racist. In fact, the best cover is to mimic the position of the other side. I have known very few right-wing people who could possibly carry this out.
For the record, I don't use the term white supremacist because most of the time the whites don't act like their supreme. Because of the way I operate, I have no way of knowing how many in law enforcement have taken my advice. That's all I'll say on the matter. To go beyond that would pose a serious threat to their livelihoods and maybe their lives. The Klan organizations showcase their members all the time, which has led to people getting fired and even worse. Check out my website for more information on my perspectives. I'm more "old left" than "new right". (Laughing) You may be surprised.
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